Thanks to cooperation with TAPS International, Bonnie Carroll and TAPS BF (Ukraine, Dnipro), Grant Bailey, a British soldier, conducted dozens of trainings for both civilians and military personnel. He traveled to the front lines to the units. His 22 years of experience in the British Army and being in captivity of the Taliban, gave him a unique opportunity to share the difficult experience of participating in various military operations and teach our Ukrainian defenders new skills, becoming more resilient and hardy while being in captivity of the Russians or in combat conditions.
During his stay in Dnipro, Grant Bailey found time and dedicated it to us in order to tell us more about his military experience, including being in captivity of the Taliban movement, volunteering and training programs for Ukrainians. We are happy to share the material, because at a time when Ukraine has actually become a big checkpoint for the whole world, which is holding back Russian aggression, the support of international experts and organizations is a big step towards us, so that we see that we are understood and helped.
ABOUT MILITARY EXPERIENCE, CAPTIVE AND PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAINING
1) Tell us about yourself and your experience of serving in the British Army.
My name is Grant Bailey. I used to serve in the British Army. I spent 22 years in the British Army. I retired in December 2005. Well, the first 15 years I served in the infantry, I was in Northern Ireland, Germany, the Falklands and many countries in Europe on exercises and military operations. And then for the last seven years I moved to the reconnaissance unit in the artillery and was engaged in advanced aerial surveillance and artillery guidance on enemy positions. So those were my 22 years (author: Grant Bailey - sniper, advanced air gunner).
2) How is the psychological preparation of soldiers for various types of tests during hostilities carried out in your army?
When I first got into the infantry, you don't really have the psychological resilience, experience of interrogations, behavior after capture like an ordinary soldier, they tell you that you can give your phone number, religion and the like, and this is so that the enemy doesn't have any operational information for 24 hours. But when I got into a specialized unit, I attended training in behavior in captivity, which was only theoretical. And then I went through training in organizing and carrying out an escape, where you get captured, and then you get into a room where you are interrogated for 24 hours. Once you get through that, you move on to the next training courses, other interrogations, and then you move on to the instructor course, which is practical, and then you do the final practical part, interrogating certain individuals from certain units. And so I became more resistant psychologically to the idea of being captured.
3) What helped you survive being captured (pr.aut - Grant was captured by the Taliban for a few months in 2021)?
Obviously, my previous military experience helped me. I was in Afghanistan for a couple of years as a contractor, training and stuff. I was evacuated in August when the US pulled out. And a few months later, a friend of mine asked if I would like to go back to Afghanistan to help students who were leaving the country, under the guise of providing humanitarian aid. And I said, "Yeah, I don't mind." So I went in October 2021, for two months everything was fine, everything was great. I was moving around Kabul, doing what I was supposed to do, and then on December 18, the police and Taliban intelligence came to my hotel, asked me a few questions, and then took me to their cell. First, they took me to a police station, which was only a 15-minute drive from the hotel. I knew Kabul anyway, so I knew where I was, and then they put us all in a few cars. I thought, "Wow, I'm being released. This is great. Bad luck. They took me to another place, and then I was walking down the path, and then they put me on my knees on the grass, and that's what I honestly thought - okay, they're going to kill me. And I thought, we've all seen what the Taliban do to people. So, I thought, "Okay, they're going to kill me." Then they went into the chief's office, took all my documents, asked me a few questions.
4) Have you talked to our Ukrainian fighters who were captured by the Russians. In your opinion, is there a difference between Taliban captivity and Russian captivity?
The stories that I've heard from the soldiers that I've met and from the media, your soldiers, men and women, and your civilians who were captured, are treated much worse than I was behaved.
ON MILITARY EXPERIENCE, CAPTIVES AND PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAINING
1) Tell us about yourself and your experience in the British Army.
My name is Grant Bailey. I used to serve in the British Army. I spent 22 years in the British Army. I left in December 2005. Well, the first 15 years I served in the infantry, I was in Northern Ireland, Germany, the Falklands and many countries in Europe on exercises and military operations. And then for the last seven years I moved to the reconnaissance unit in the artillery and was engaged in forward aerial surveillance and guidance of artillery on enemy positions. So that was my 22 years (author: Grant Bailey - sniper, forward air gunner).
2) How does your army psychologically prepare soldiers for the various types of tests during military operations?
When I first got into the infantry, you don't really have the psychological resilience, the experience of interrogations, the handling of being captured like a regular soldier, you're told that you can give out your phone number, your religion, and so on, so that the enemy doesn't have any operational information for 24 hours. But when I got into the specialized unit, I went through a training course on how to behave in captivity, which was just theoretical. And then I went through training on organizing and executing an escape, where you get captured, and then you go into a room where you're interrogated for 24 hours. After you've gone through that, you go on to the next training courses, other interrogations, and then you go on to the instructor course, which is practical, and then you do the final practical part, interrogating certain individuals from certain units. And so I became more psychologically resilient to the idea of being captured.
3) What helped you survive captivity (pr.aut - Grant was held captive by the Taliban for a few months in 2021)?
Obviously, my previous military experience helped me. I was in Afghanistan for a couple of years as a contractor, training and stuff. I was evacuated in August when the US pulled out. And a few months later, a friend of mine asked if I would like to go back to Afghanistan to help students who were leaving the country, under the guise of providing humanitarian aid. And I said, "Yes, I would." So I went in October 2021, for two months everything was fine, everything was great. I was moving around Kabul, doing what I was supposed to do, and then on December 18, the police and Taliban intelligence came to my hotel, asked me a few questions, and then took me to their cell. First, they took me to a station that was only a 15-minute drive from the hotel. I knew Kabul anyway, so I knew where I was, and then they put us all in several cars. I thought, "Wow, I'm being released. This is great. Bad luck. They took me to another place, and then I was walking down the path, and then they put me on my knees on the grass, and that's what I honestly thought - okay, they're going to kill me. And I thought, we've all seen what the Taliban do to people. So, I thought, "Okay, they're going to kill me." Then they went into the chief's office, took all my documents, asked me a few questions.
4) Have you talked to our Ukrainian fighters who were captured by the Russians. In your opinion, is there a difference between Taliban captivity and Russian captivity?
The stories that I've heard from the soldiers that I've met and from the media, your soldiers, men and women, and your civilians who were captured, are treated much worse than I was behaved.
ABOUT COOPERATION WITH TAPS AND PROJECTS FOR THE FAMILIES OF FALLEN MILITARY SERVICEMEN
5) Tell us about your encounter with TAPS from the very beginning, when it was, who is Bonnie Carroll for you and why did you decide to help this organization? Because TAPS is the United States of America. You are from the UK.
Before that, I was working as a volunteer in Somalia. I was a security manager for a company that worked in Mogadishu. And then Bonnie and her team came to Mogadishu and stayed in my building at Mogadishu International Airport. I accompanied Bonnie as part of the security team to several areas of the city. And from that time on, we kind of got to know each other, you know, when she told me about TAPS and I said I would like to become an instructor, a medical instructor or do something that I could help TAPS in Ukraine. So I think about a month later they said to me, "Yes, if you want to volunteer, we'll hire you to work with us." It was about three months ago, because before I came to Ukraine, I went to Burkina Faso as a TAPS volunteer, conducting medical training for the special police there, because they are also fighting a war against terrorism. And then right here.
6) Why did you decide to come to Ukraine? We have one of the most brutal wars in the world right now.
Yes, but that's the reason, because Ukraine needs all the support we can give. And I think having American volunteers, British volunteers, all from Europe, attracts more people who say, "Oh, the guys from Great Britain are here." And why is that? Because the more international help Ukraine gets, the better for Ukraine. I worked here before, in 2022, after I was released from Afghanistan, and I worked in Kyiv for a company that was doing medical training for NGOs. So I already had that experience, and I knew I wanted to pass on more knowledge, and that's why I'm here.
7) Tell us about your impressions of the TAPS team (Ukraine) and how do you see further cooperation and projects for training and assistance?
I know that Bonnie and the rest of the TAPS team here are engaged in psychological support and assistance to wounded soldiers, their families, children. I saw a rather lively atmosphere here, and I was pleased to see children laughing and rejoicing, playing games, wives, girlfriends of wounded soldiers or those who brought drawings, or those who participated in the classes. It is nice to see people smiling, people having fun, but there is still something that remains deep in the soul. For the military, I conduct a four-day program, two days of tactical medicine, that is, tactical assistance to the wounded in battle, and then we move on to the tactical side. Observation, ambushes, clearing trenches, clearing buildings - all that happens every day at the front. The guys I trained or helped last week are veterans who came back from the front and are now brigade instructors. They all trained in Germany or the UK, but some of what they were shown didn't match the conditions of this war. So we all got together and discussed how we wanted to train, and it was very successful. We're getting great feedback, TAPS is getting great feedback on what we've achieved this week and what we'll achieve next week, and in a week I'm going to go to the casualty collection point to help out there. So I'm going there and I'm going to help out as a medic to share my experience and see what's needed there.
10) It's really amazing when someone from other countries, or like you, wants to come to Ukraine and stay here, while millions of Ukrainians are leaving here, trying to find a better life. What is TAPS to you? It's like a family, like a community that's close to your soul. Why did you decide to be with this organization? Because of the philosophy, because of the ideology?
Bonnie is the same pull. She described such an incredible work that Ukraine does that I couldn't help but agree to volunteer. She told me about the program that they do for families and so on, and that the soldiers would be grateful for additional training or just some advice.
That's what stands out to me the most - TAPS Ukraine, what you do for everyone.
ABOUT THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY, TRAINING PROGRAMS AND UKRAINE'S VICTORY
11) What can you say about our Ukrainian defenders, who are they, why are they so motivated. Your country has never had such an experience when one country tried to kill your nation. What can you say about our Ukrainian defenders?
Oh, the soldiers, the defenders. They are so determined. When I trained other countries, other soldiers who are not at war, they treat it as something ordinary. And Ukrainians treat everything very seriously, because any new information they either immediately reject or think it is not suitable, or - yes, it is a good idea. They listen to every word, and then put it into practice for a week, because the next day they can be at the front. So they treat everything seriously. And it is nice to see
8) And what are your plans for Ukraine in the future? Do you want to finish this program and go home?
I am here until victory. It will come, it is inevitable!
Watch the full version of the video interview on our channel: TAPS
Journalist: Kateryna Leonova
Cinematographer and editor: Dmytro Petruk
Production: OKO production
